OSC Grid reloaded

[VanishMember]

Okay, I have to shamefully admit, I kinda left this topic unfinished the last time we discussed it, and I have perfectly good reasons for that (work, hospital, stuff), but nonetheless, it’s still something I’d like to tackle. Here’s the situation:

1. I’d like to make OSC available not only through the website, but also on the OpenSim grids, preferably through hypergrid.

2. My poor webserver will probably not be able to handle the load of several (like, more than half a dozen) avatars at once, and is already pretty pushed to its limits by my private standalone, with only 1 or 2 avatars on it.

3. At the moment, I really can’t justify renting another server to run an OSC grid on it, especially since I don’t really have any desire to run grids, and handle people’s inventories, accounts, etc.

So, instead of creating the one, true, only OSC grid, I’ve got these ideas:

1. I’d like to distribute one or more “shop regions” as OAR downloads. These regions include as many OSC as can reasonably fit on them, and anyone running a grid can then easily upload them and provide a source for OSC right there. Problems: A. Creating the regions is a lot of work, but can possibly be done when several people contribute (through hypergrid, or such). B. Keeping the regions up to date with new creations is even more work, it’s probably easier to include later creations in entirely new regions.

2. I’d like to have a decentralized OSC hypergrid network, which means that anyone who wants to run a hypergridded OSC “shop” on their own grid/standalone will be linked here and can/should/would also get a pointer from an OSC subdomain (like gridxyz.opensim-creations.com)

3. I might maybe run a small OSC standalone on the osc server, just to see if it works (and to put together the shop regions), but due to the above issues, I can’t and don’t want to run this as the central and only OSC shop around.

Thoughts, ideas, spontaneous contributions anyone?

[Maria KorolovMember]

Vanish –

I’ve love to have a small OSC store with HG-friendly, CC-licensed content up on Hyperica terminals, with hypergate links to other grids that have the full malls.

One potential issue to keep in mind is that objects here have different license terms. Some, for example, are non-commercial, and others can be used anywhere.

So if you create a shopping mall OAR with the idea that startup grids can download it and use it to jump-start a freebie area for new residents, it could create problems for them trying to figure out which content they can use and which they can’t.

(I know I keep harping on about license terms, but that’s because I’ve gotten in trouble for not being super careful about them, and many grid owners I know have, as well. And the bad publicity stays on the Internet forever!)

Meanwhile, if you’re looking for a cheap, easy place to do OAR files, New World Studio is great, and I use it for local building (since my darn routers doesn’t loopback). I also use Kitely a lot because creating OARs is so darn easy, and the first two hours a month are free. You can set up as many regions as you want — a full CC region, a non-profit or personal use only region, etc… — and individual creators can stop by and add their content and every so often you’d download the OARs and post them online.

Or one of the startup grids could volunteer to host it. Speculoos is doing a nice job hosting one of Linda Kellie’s freebie mall OARs, for example.

[ningunorealMember]

I could see the ATM/’networked vendor’ paradigm being useful here–distribute vendor objects for people to place on their sims, and, in theory, the appropriate php/cgi/whatever-you-like on your web server can mediate transfers between a hypergrid-enabled standalone/grid (you could make one with logins disabled, solely for the purpose of holding and distributing the assets) and the person using the vendor in some other grid. Obviously, this won’t work for OARs and IARs yet–perhaps the vendor could distribute notecards with links to this site in those cases?

[Anonymous]

One of my most major complaints about most OpenSim store regions is the amount of lag caused by overscripting/prim-memory usage. To help combat this I have a vendor I am going to post very soon that is easy to operate. By nesting objects within a vendor, you save on prim usage and reduce the overhead on the server.

I think it is an excellent idea though vanish. In all reality it offers the best solution for encouraging open development here on OSC by having this decentralized. Perhaps, if possible, a thread with HG Addresses, and a regular multigrid teleporter could be warehoused on OSC.

In anycase, even though I have had some major family tragedies going on recently, I have been really wanting to start developing in earnest.

I know I for myself am going to scale back my grid to just a personal server for the time being in an effort to hedge a bet that 12 core processor servers are going to drop in price as they begin to compete with cloud computing.

OH well I will stop rambling now LOL…..

-Alicia/Tina

[Anonymous]

Okay,

I have had some time to think about it – and i would like to ante up here for this. While I cannot during this month afford the outlay for a decent dedicated server hosted in a datacenter, I will be prepared to do such by next month say before/on the 5th.

I had recently had a really bad bout of situational depression going on, as a few deaths, poor health, and medical emergencies have seemed to have plauged my extended family. I had given up on having higher goals like maintaining a grid, and had devolved into using Alcohol over the last two months rather heavily.

I will work in the meanwhile on my trusty local ubuntu server box to get the files/db populated to be uploaded to the remote datacenter machine coming next month.

Some of the work would entail things as vendor development, preplanning public and semi-private areas, and getting builds done for the showcases that would be needed for helping to extend our community.

Essentially the server set up I have set up at home is identical in software environment to a production server, so the transition will be as simple as creating a tarball and doing a db dump with SQLyog.

So I guess I am saying it is in my opinion of what you are proposing a great idea. I foresee each grid/standalone as being a city of sorts which makes up the web nation of OSC.

For instance my own grid could be placed at stone-city.opensim-creations.com.

I have my eye on an i7 quad core server with ample memory and monthly bandwidth…. Anyway V, let me know what you think.

-Alicia/Tina

[VanishMember]

Oi everyone!

@mariakorolov: I agree that everyone needs to be careful about the license terms, but that’s really not a problem of OSC or the creators. If someone uses OpenSim and our creations for commercial endeavours, it’s up to them to make sure that what they’re using is legal, and if it requires them to go through each item to check the license to make sure it’s safe, then that’s how it is. After all, they’re using something for free and don’t need to share the income they get out of that with us either.

Also, it wouldn’t be any different, if they would’ve purchased something, they would still need to check licenses! In that regard, creative commons is actually better, as the licenses are at least standardized and easily recognizable.

That said, I will try to make at least one “commercial friendly” shop, but keep in mind that the most popular licenses usually restrict commercial uses or at least require the users to license everything they create with the objects (i.e. anything they use it in) to license under the same license.

Personally, I’m not looking for a place to host stuff, but rather give every grid the opportunity to make OSC available to their users as easy as possible. If they do, that’s great, if they don’t, they don’t.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Vanish.

[VanishMember]

@ningunoreal: The model you propose sounds great, and is probably what several multi-grid marketplaces already offer, but I can see two problems with it:

First, there’s the one you already mention. While it works great with assets that are rather “simple” (primsets, cloth layers, etc.) it would be more complicated with OAR files, IAR files, RAW files etc.

Second, while the first problem is merely technical and could eventually be overcome, it still is a centralized solution, which does somewhat go against what I believe the internet is and should be. If OSC delivers ALL the content, then the whole system depends on OSC to be up and running at all times, so whenever I have an update, a server outage, or the monkeys running the little blinking lights in that box get drunk, there won’t be any deliveries anymore, and I’d like to avoid that situation. I think the more distributed and “chaotic” a system is, the stronger it is in the end. Conveniently, this also avoids the technical problems above.

[VanishMember]

@aliciastone: Thanks a lot for all your contribution and I can absolutely understand situational depression and stress from family tragedies/sicknesses. With that, I’m actually mostly concerned about your own wellbeing and don’t want to add anything to your cup, which seems to be quite full already.

That said, I do have the lag issue in mind, and it’s a tricky balance between causing scripting lag, or prim lag, which is why I don’t want to overload the shops with stuff and certainly don’t want to cram the whole backcatalogue of OSC on one region. @garry has made that awesome steampunk vendor I might try to use, along with Adelle’s vendor script, but that doesn’t mean that’s the way things should be. As I said, creating the shops is a lot of work, and if anyone wants to help me with it, I certainly won’t tell them what vendor to use or how to put things together. The nice thing about OSC and creative commons is that anyone can just download the entire website and put stuff on a region and then re-upload the whole OAR for redistribution (just like @hanheld already did with your landscaping packs).

With regards to servers: We’re not in a hurry here, and this is not something that needs to be finished within the month (or the year…), so whenever you can spare some time and server space for it, that’s perfectly fine for me. (As I said, I’d much rather have you look after yourself and be well most of all.) If I can get to it, I’ll start up a small standalone on the weekend and start putting a region together, and if anyone wants to hypergrid in after that and rezz/import their or anyone elses stuff there, that would be great. Maybe that way we can finish the shop faster.

One of the major issues is including the correct attribution and license with each object, and I haven’t quite decided how to do that, but I’m rather inclined towards including it in the object name and description, as well as a notecard with the attribution and license text in the object contents (or maybe box, if they’re boxed).

[Anonymous]

Vanish,

One of the major issues is including the correct attribution and license with each object, and I haven’t quite decided how to do that, but I’m rather inclined towards including it in the object name and description,

Yes, I agree sir, and when I read about the problem it seemed like the logical way to approach it to me. By placing a simple note of “License: CC by A ~ Created by Alicia Stone”. in the description, the OpenSim community itself just like IRC communities, etc will recognize those people when they come across them, and in most cases honor a license.

Notecards with Licenses/Attributions would work well for things like collection; clothing fat-packs, furniture sets, clown bowling pins.

I think that if we get people in the habit of just keeping the attribution intact with what is freely-given, most people will honor this.

And you are a bit late on telling me to take it easy – I have already started to populate a Grid on my home linux server. I should also have some additional builds/textures/scripts up soon.

Believe it or not it really helps me to focus on stuff like this. Maybe its just because I think I look good in my commie boots, but helping out on open source projects is something I take a great deal of comfort in.

Oh btw – what’s the hours/formats for programming on the icecast stream? I mean audiobooks always go over really well in addition to music programming, and all of the content of librivox.org is Public Domain.

Thanks,

-Alicia/Tina

[VanishMember]

Not sure what you mean by “formats”. Technically, it’s an mp3 stream (variable bitrate, so anything up to, uh, 192kb/s? dunno, I usually use 128). Programmatically, I don’t put any restrictions on it, other than the users should be of and use it for the opensim community (although I’ve made some exceptions to noteworthy causes, like a creative commons festival). The open stream (the one in the sidebar) doesn’t have any schedule or plan, anyone can just plug in anytime and start broadcasting. (And frankly, atm there’s not much going on there, except for me testing things and occasionally streaming my iTunes playlist.) The private streams are reserved for the individual users and it’s up to them when and if they broadcast. Really, it’s all pretty simple and straightforward, I hate regulating stuff. So, anytime you want to plug in, just kick me (or whoever else is streaming) off the server and give it a try.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Vanish.

[VanishMember]

Hi everyone.

I’ve finally started the OSC grid and uploaded a few OARs. You can find it at:

http://opensim-creations.com:9000 or
http://opensim-creations.com:9000:Palmhouse (which is the default region).

It is closed for registrations and only accessible through hypergrid (whichever HG version is running on 0.7.3), and I plan on keeping it that way. As I said above, this is supposed to be a hypergrid “shop”, not a grid.

So far, there’s not much to pick up there, as I just finished the overall layout of the regions and set up the central region (Palmhouse) mostly the way I want it to be. Everything will probably evolve from there. A few technical details:

Most of the regions are in the 5000,5000 area. (Not exactly at 5000,5000, as a lot of other grids running the Diva Distro are centered there, and hg teleports would fail if both the source region and the destination region are at the same coordinates.) There’s one area as a gateway for the lower hypergrid (around 1000,1000) called The Path, accessible through http://opensim-creations.com:9000:The Path , and another one in the upper reaches (around 8000,8000) called Ever One on http://opensim-creations.com:9000:Ever One.

I’ll post an official announcement later today, along with a few surprises.

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